People don’t realize why Satoshi Nakamoto was anonymous in the first place because any founder who competed with the US dollar went to prison and, and, and why Blockchain was kind of like it wasn’t just a fun invention for no purpose, even though it was great. Um It was, it was built out of necessity. Mining was built out of necessity because you had to have it be distributed because you couldn’t have a centralized warehouse of silver of silver and gold or servers to run this thing because you, you, they would get shut down and seized by the government. It’s Thursday, August 15th and this is Market hosted by me Jen San Asi. On the show, we navigate the currents, shaping the crypto markets, providing insights against the broader financial landscape. So whether you’re actively trading or simply fascinated by the volatility of crypto markets. This show is your compass to understanding what’s happened where we are and where we’re going. Good morning everyone. Our guest today is the founder of Fin Fund, Eric Finan, who’s also known as one of the youngest Bitcoin millionaires. He joins the show now, Eric, welcome. Thank you so much for having me on. It’s a pleasure. I’m so curious to hear as someone who got into Bitcoin all those years ago when it comes to the crypto markets. What are you watching this morning? Well, um, I guess, uh, what am I watching or? How do I learn about crypto? And how do I follow up the things? I mean, Twitter, I think a lot of people use Twitter. I love Twitter. It is my number one thing that I use. Um, or I guess X now, I it’s hard for me to say Twitter, uh or, or, or say X instead of Twitter and everything. Um But yeah, I mean, I don’t know if that’s the most unique thing in the world. Um I, when I first started hearing about kind of Bitcoin in the first place all the way back in 2011. Uh you know, there was a lot of great BT C forms at the time. Um And uh and that was always, those were kind of the bad old days if you will. Um Those were, those, those were kind of my favorite days, although I’m one of the youngest in the space, those were kind of the, the, the, you know, just 10 plus years ago. So I feel like I’m, I’m speaking like an old man. Oh, I miss the old days. I just need to say like, what we’re talking about 2011. You were also like 12 years old at that time doing due diligence, I was doing my due diligence. Nobody knew I was 12 on these forms. And, you know, I’m glad they didn’t. Um, and everything, but uh there was, uh that was kind of just kind of the old days of, of, you know, it feels like back when, you know, uh uh Steve jobs and Bill Gates were working on like the alter computer and like the Apple two and those were kind of the days. So I, I miss those days in many ways. Tell me a little bit more about that due diligence aspect when you’re looking at an investment now, especially in the crypto markets, especially when you are getting a lot of information on X. How do you do that due diligence? How do you decide where you’re going to put your money? Um So I also do in addition to crypto kind of investing in other alt coins and everything. Uh I, I also do a couple of angel investments and start ups as well. So this applies to both things for me. Um Is I like to talk to the founder if I can. Um and uh or at least hear from the founder and when it comes to hiring, when it comes to start up angel investments, when it comes to investing in a, I’d say an alt coin, um I, I tend to invest in, in uh in, in the weirdos and misfits. Um You know, I consider myself as someone, at least from birth has always been someone from the island of Misfit toys. And I’m a little weird and I’m a little crazy and, uh, so I like to find other people that are weird misfits crazy. And, uh, so I, I look for that, you know, obviously not in a way where anyone’s malicious or bad but, but in a way that they’re a little crazy. Um, and, uh, so that’s kind of what I look forward to as someone that is willing to think outside the box. You know, people in tech and crypto, they always, you know, say, oh we want people who think outside the box and we want different people, but that’s just ab absolutely not true. That’s just absolutely not true. They have a, a set person, a set project, um a set type of coin marketing or coin product style that’s in their heads and they look for that something that’s safe in the box but is out, seems like it’s outside of the box. I try to find uh projects and people that are, are pretty different and, and have ideas that I’ve never thought of before. Um And that’s, that’s kind of what I look for when I look for in a project and the best place to, to find those people is to reach out to the founder or to see what the founder has written over the years. Um And, uh or, or, you know, how they’re, how they’re implementing and talking about their project today. That’s interesting. I, I’ve heard a similar story from other investors we’ve had on the show. Sometimes they do look for the more traditional founder with the experience and the exits. But depending on the project, I have heard, you know, sometimes you need that person who really is just thinking very differently than, than others. And that’s what I hear you saying there. When you talk about the weirdos and the misfits, are you talking about people who really have a belief in something that is so systemically different than what we are experiencing today? That they come off as a weirdo and a misfit. Is that what you’re saying? That’s exactly what I’m saying. So yeah, they’re not actually weirdos or misfits, but if you are different, if you think different, um if you uh if you’re a little bit insane in a good way, you come across insane and you come across different. Um And in a way that, but actually they’re perfectly sane and uh they do great things. So, um you know, at Fin Fund, we try to find companies and projects like literally we have a monopoly. Um And as we grow, we’re and even have more of a monopoly on, on those weirdos and misfits. Like old people are great people to invest in people that have worked at a company for decades. Like you get some people that are worked at a company for decades and maybe they’re stuck in that mindset. But actually the majority of them are, are, are incredibly smart and no one wanna, no, no one in Silicon Valley wants to give them money because they’re 65. Right. And, but yet they, they had many years left. A lot of them still have bite and they’re smarter than most young people. Also, I got Bitcoin when I was 12. I started my first company, I was 15, I exited that company when I was 17. Find, you know, investing in like really, really young teenagers is, is also something that II I do and have a monopoly on. Um And then, yeah, people who just sound different. People that are extreme, right wing, extreme, left wing people don’t want to invest in those. Um because maybe it offends their politics, um, in a certain way. I’m a, you know, I have my own politics but I’m willing to invest in someone that’s the complete pos of me um, on that front. Uh Just if they have a great idea and a great project and nobody’s willing to do that. And that’s why I think that I’m, I’m great. Like I first heard about Bitcoin and it was a weird thing full of, you know, beautifully weird people and I guess maybe I was one of them and, uh, and that’s, and that’s just really that, that kind of template has really set the stage for all my thinking in my life, in any projects that I do projects that I invest in people I hire and people that I, I uh iiii, I think they’re gonna make the next big thing you said when you’re looking at alt coins or projects to invest in, you look at the founder. And that’s interesting to me because one of the foundational elements of this industry is um anonymity or pseud anonymity. I always have such a hard word. A hard time saying that word. Um But let’s, let’s talk about that because it seems like as Bitcoin as crypto becomes more mainstream as it becomes more mature, that anonymity part is kind of going away and for your project to be really legit and sustainable, it is looking like you need to be um a little bit more like a technical founder, like a normal technology founder, someone who’s out there in the public, who’s speaking on Twitter Spaces, who is attending conferences, who’s talking loudly and proudly about their project. Are you, have you witnessed that shift? Yeah, I have witnessed that shift. And uh but no, I mean, when I talk about knowing someone, their user name is good enough also for me, um I mean, I, I have a friend, you know, kind of a pseudo friend, not a best friend, but I’ve known him for like 67 years and I don’t know his real name. I just know his user name. I’ve met him in real life too. I don’t even know his real name. His user name, kind of sounds like a name. So, like I kind of go like, maybe it’s his real name but like I, I thought about it the other day, I’m like, actually I don’t, I don’t think that maybe is his real name. So when I talk about knowing a founder being pseudo anonymous is fine. And then, and then back in the day, like the reason why Satoshi Nakamoto is anonymous is because um uh pre Bitcoin a lot of people, like I was, again, I was a weird kid. I don’t know how I got into this whole world, but it’s uh it’s like I was really obsessed with alternative currencies. And before Bitcoin, um me and, and, you know, honestly with the help of my older brother, he kind of was a mentor to me in the space mid way we’re kind of obsessed with, with uh uh all these alternative currencies. And before Bitcoin, there was a lot of people trying to do alternative currencies, there was something called liberty dollar which had like, you know, going to the silver and gold back and currency. And then the, the founder had a warehouse of, of silver and gold where he would ship you like a $10 silver certificate which looked like a $10 bill which had like Ron Paul’s face on it. And you could, you know, use that at different stores that accepted it or, or you could redeem it with him for $10 worth of silver at his warehouse. That guy went to j like that’s why Pete founders were in were, were, became, that’s why Sashi Nakamoto became uh uh anonymous or, or was anonymous in the first place because you would go to jail if you started an alternative currency. Uh This was a law that was passed during the civil War, which is very interesting. There was a lot of, I’m actually collector of alternative currencies because before the civil war, so the North uh uh banned uh any other type of currency to kind of help, you know, the economy and help, you know, raise money for uh for funding that war. But I actually collect, there was a lot of alternative currencies before that and I collect them. And it’s so interesting. And then even after liberty dollar people tried these hash hash based digital currencies, those people like were threatened with either getting shut down or jail. Um And that’s why, you know, I think Blockchain was kind of invented because the, the federal government would seize your silver and gold warehouse. If you tried to start an alternative currency, it was based on the silver, gold or they would, you know, shut down and seize your servers if you were trying to run a central, centralized digital currency. And this was all before Bitcoin is invented. So, so, you know, I think people don’t realize why Satoshi Nakamoto was anonymous in the first place because any founder who competed with the US Dollar went to prison and, and, and why Blockchain was kind of me like it wasn’t just a fun invention for no purpose, even though it was great. Um It was, it was built out of necessity. Mining was built out of necessity because you had to have that be distributed because you couldn’t have a centralized warehouse of silver of silver and gold or servers to run this thing because you, you, they would get shut down and seized by the government. So anyways, maybe a long winded way to answer your question. Um But uh but II, I love uh uh anonymous. I love pseudo anonym an anonyminity. Um Sorry, it’s early and uh uh are just struggling without one word, but that’s OK. Yes. Um But uh uh but yeah, it’s just such a, such a I, I don’t mind pseudo an uh an anonymous accounts. I don’t mind anonymous accounts, but, you know, you can tell kind of the vibe and, and, and who that person kind of uh is uh at least on a technical front. Um Even if they do have anonymous Twitter account, let’s talk about portfolio allocation outside of Bitcoin. Uh Give me three crypto assets that you are really interested in at the moment. Um I mean, uh I think you have uh obviously Bitcoin is a favorite but I really like Moro. Moro is one of my favorites. Um uh Just because of uh uh just how anonymous it is and, and could be great. And obviously that can be used for bad things, which I don’t use it for. But, you know, I, I just, I just like that, you know, Bitcoin is a little bit traceable man. They really is, you know, as much off the grid as you can get. At least I have a Cryptocurrency. At least that I’m aware of. I really like, bro. Um I’m an investor in uh uh Metal MTL. Um So that’s great. So totally shameless plug, totally biased for that. Um But there’s a reason why I got into that. Um But yeah, that’s kind of my favorite. I’d say the tried and true Bitcoin uh Mano because I, I do think that if you are someone that is being persecuted by a government. Um And you wanna like, you know, I think this changes the, the, the, the kind of conversation on, on refugees, not, you know, because refugees can ordinarily not take their money with them. Now you can take your money on a, on a USB stick and all your wealth with you. I mean, there’s so many people that, you know, Saddam Hussein, you know, cracked down on money wise and all these rich people and smart people had to leave Iraq. Um uh because of uh uh you know, uh uh leave rock with nothing. Um Even though they were rich and that, and this kind of changes the ca changes the conversation a little bit on that. Um uh uh because you can take your wealth with you and the Moro can, you can take your wealth with you in a completely anonymous way. So I think that’s amazing. I think that’s a great technology. That really is one of the original use cases for Cryptocurrency for Bitcoin more specifically. And Moro does amplify that. I’m happy you, you brought it up, I think in this industry, sometimes we, we lose sight a little bit about some of the real human issues that some of this technology solved. So I’m really happy that you brought that up. Something else you brought up was um the tension between government and decentralized finance that tension still exists today and in some way, shape or form with the regulatory hurdles that we’re experiencing here in the United States when you’re looking at a project to invest in? Are you taking that into consideration? Are you looking at projects that are based uh where there are more clear regulatory rules? Um I mean, so I did a bill. Um It was right before COVID. So it kinda kinda died when COVID and no one in Congress was listening to COVID and it was kind of uh it was called the Cryptocurrency Act of 2020. And uh uh coin desk was written about it actually. And then a long time ago and then um uh and it was interesting, it was a bill of rights kind of for crypto Blockchain Blockchain based projects. Um uh and, and kind of identify different asset classes for those. Um And that was really incredible and really exciting and there’s actually some people trying to resurrect it now, which is really cool. Um But yeah, I mean, I think that it is annoying in the United States that you have a, a uh unfriendly um kind of environment for crypto companies with the current administration. And I think it is nice to have a clear um you know, regulatory environment and I hope the US does that. I think if Trump gets in, um that’s one thing I think he’s made clear that he will do. Uh So that’s exciting and I know the people on his team that will do it, they’re really competent, amazing, wonderful people. Um that, that is exciting for me. Um But at the same time, um I think when Satoshi Nakamoto um or wherever he is, uh first, uh he or she is um first got kind of invented Bitcoin in the first place. I think people kind of, at least I did at the time, I assumed it was going to be banned by the government and Bitcoin. And uh you know, ideally a lot of the better crypto projects are completely decentralized. So even if the US government cracked down banned everything tomorrow. Yeah, it would like, you know, kind of nuke the market of it because so many kind of normal people wouldn’t be able to get into it. But the purpose of these things is, was, was Bitcoin was invented and a lot of these early cryptocurrencies were invented with kind of the idea that it was going to get the end and that it could exist anyways. So um yes, I’d like to uh if you’re investing in a traditional kind of start up. Um You wanna make sure which has a centralized kind of hierarchy and infrastructure to it. Yeah, that those people could be very easily shut down by the government and you have to take that into account. Um But uh but you know, II I, I’m hopeful, I guess for the space that uh so yes, for investing, maybe that does, does kind of impact on my thinking. Um But the overall space and, you know, I guess maybe I don’t have to tell you or tell this audience is that even if uh uh it was all completely shut down tomorrow, um At least there was rules or laws that it was all shut down by tomorrow, it would still exist. So that’s kind of hopeful, in my opinion, when you first invested in Bitcoin way back when you invested $1000 you turn that into a million dollars. If you were going to invest $1000 into something today with a long term view that that was going to make you the same return. I know this is complete speculation. It’s not financial advice, but what would you put it in? Um You know, I think, uh I, I don’t like to, I get asked this question, I don’t like to answer it, but I will answer it for you because you’re amazing. Um So there, there you go, you’re special and you’re wonderful. So, um but yeah, I mean, I would say going back to my early answer of, of Moro. Um I think that uh and again, you know, financial advice, blah, blah, blah, all the, all the, all the, all the warning labels or whatever. Um But I think that has the potential to go up Moro or Z cash, have the potential to c cash kind of similar. Um Although Z cash a little less in honor like you, you kind of know the people behind Z cash. So, so I guess I would say Moo on that front. Um uh uh because I think that if the US were to ever, um and I don’t think the US will ever get into like a really like the US has fallen situation, but if there ever is a kind of global financial crisis times two that was experienced 2008, 2009, that is the place to make um you know, very good money in my opinion. And, and also I don’t like the casino culture that a lot of this crypto kind of space has become, which is why maybe my answers, I’m more kind of taking a more uh uh kind of political type answers to your questions. Um I got into Bitcoin because like, I literally found out about Bitcoin. It was at an, it was at a libertarian um protest um at the Jefferson Memorial um where you had uh some people were arrested for dancing at the Jefferson memorial, like literally like George Floyd need on the neck, you know, little head cracked on the marble. It is illegal to dance the Jefferson memorial, like four people dance quietly with their headphones on with their ipod way back in the day and they, they got, they got arrested and, and had you could, there’s a video of it had cracked on the, on the, on the um granite or marble floor of the Jefferson memorial. I mean, it’s just just crazy. And then, you know, thousands of us went to go dance the Jefferson memorial and they literally had riot police black hawk helicopters with like a guy with a machine gun like literally hanging Vietnam style on the side circling like very low altitude and they had ri police on horseback and everything and then, you know, eventually things shot off and then, you know, we all, we all were running from the police and then, you know, some guy had this orange shirt on with a B on it, that looked like a dollar sign. And that’s why I first heard about Bitcoin and I asked what that was and, and then, uh, he said it’s, he, he said it’s Bitcoin, man, it’s gonna end Wall Street, bro. And he ran off and then, uh, and then I went and looked up about Bitcoin. So, um, that’s kind of, uh, uh, you know, I, I think Moro kind of has that potential for, for upside in my opinion, not financial advice. Um because, uh uh you know, I think that that that is kind of the, the, the, the best, most kind of moral and ethical and, and right, um reason why that would shoot up because I think if, if the end of the world or some global financial crisis times two or some world crisis events, um I think a lot of people would have to use Monaro and thus it would go up and maybe that there’s other coins that would go up because of casino culture. Um and people, you know, the economy just being so bad that people are just so desperate to kind of get rich quick. And hey, I’m someone that kind of got rich quick um and everything. So I have sympathy for those people and, and I was definitely, you know, I, when I first got into Bitcoin, I thought it would go up in the same way, you know, world peace would kind of happen. You kind of hope for it, you wish for it, but you’re not quite sure if it actually will. But I think that is kind of the, the moral answer to your uh uh moral and correct answer to your question. I appreciate this and I know I just said this, but I appreciate that you’re bringing us back to the foundations of, of Bitcoin and of what this industry was built on because I think that we do get lost in the casino culture of it. So thank you for bringing us down that direction. Now, I have a follow up question on the story you just told, I mean, given how you learned about Bitcoin. Um and why it sounds like you are so interested in the crypto space. What do you think of the institutional adoption of Bitcoin? What do you think of the launch of these ETF S? It sounds um well, it is kind of one of the antithesis of what Bitcoin was built on. So just curious to hear your thoughts there. I mean, I think that was, it was it was inevitable or hopefully inevitable um on that front. So I think it’s great. I think the more people hear about Bitcoin I think is great because let’s say maybe they get in V an ETF and they, you know, and I, I think that then that makes them more likely to actually hold something in their own wallet, right? Um Eventually, right? You know, maybe a percentage of those people actually decide to kind of, you know, get into it very directly. So, um, I think it’s great. Um, you know, I, I think that, I think that, you know, again, I, I got into it because I’m a political junkie and I was a political junkie at 12. I was a political junkie at 10 and, you know, and all that and then, you know, this was kind of like, it’s interesting to me, like the Libertarian Party is kind of electorally dead. I maybe that offends people in the US, but it kind of moved into something better, which was technology and Bitcoin and the crypto space and everything and now kind of many ways, Bitcoin is the Libertarian Party, although not completely um by any means. Um but uh but it’s kind of interesting in that front. So, um no, I’m pro institutions getting into it. I’m pro the more kind of uh institutional adoption, the more people hear about it, the more people actually get into it for, in my opinion, the original purpose of Bitcoin and, and uh and kind of the space. So I think it’s exciting. I think that’s great and I think it’s wonderful, Eric, we got to wrap up, but thank you so much for joining Markets daily this morning. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much and thank you to our audience for watching and coming on this journey with me. If you like markets daily. Subscribe to the Coin Desk podcast network that’s available on all podcast platforms. And if you like watching, subscribe to our youtube channel, give us a thumbs up. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. We will see you on Monday.
