In the recent history of Apple, January is often a quiet month for product releases. But not this year! We’ve got new MacBook Pros, new Mac minis, and new M2 chips, and we’re talking about them all on this episode of the Macworld Podcast!
This is episode 824 with Jason Cross, Michael Simon, and Roman Loyola.
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Mac mini (2023)
14-inch MacBook Pro (2023)
16-inch MacBook Pro (2023)
HomePod (2nd generation)
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Transcript of episode 824: The big deal about the new Mac mini, 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro
RL: In the recent history of Apple, January is often a quiet month for product releases. But not this year. We’ve got new MacBook Pros, new Mac minis, new M2 chips, and even a new HomePod. And we’re talking about all of them on this episode of the Macworld Podcast.
Welcome to the Macworld Podcast. I’m Roman Loyola [RL], here with Jason Cross [JC].
JC: Good morning.
RL: And Michael Simon [MS].
MS: Hello, sir.
RL: On Tuesday, Apple revealed–some might say finally–an update to the 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro, as well as two new Mac mini models. And then today (we’re recording this on Wednesday), Apple released a second generation HomePod.
JC: Big HomePod, the canceled one.
RL: The big HomePod, yes.
MS: Yeah, the one that was discontinued about two years ago is back. Yeah.
JC: Yes.
RL: We’ve got some new products to talk about. Should we talk about the HomePod since it just came out? I guess it’s top of mind.
MS: Yeah, sure. I mean, that was kind of a shocker. So it’s weird that Apple released anything in January, nd it’s weird now that this is a couple of products in a row. Last year, we had the iPad 10th gen, the iPad Pro, the Apple TV 4K. And now we have all these Macs, new chip, all without an event, which is interesting. You can take any four of those products together and it’s a fine event. There’s nothing wrong with it.
But Apple is forgoing that. And with the MacBooks (which we’ll talk about in a little bit), there was actually a fully-produced event-style video with John Ternus and a couple other people. It was clear that they had planned it for an event and just said, you know, forget it. We’ll just put it on the website.
JC: Yeah. It was exactly the same style where they have an Apple person in front of a green screen that makes them look like they’re standing in front of a big movie theater screen looking at like, you know, product specs and things. And then like the cameras zooming down into the labs.
MS: It was like transitions and things.
JC: And yeah, right.
MS: It was like 20 minutes of a keynote.
JC: What was weird to me is that like the very next day, they decided, oh, and HomePod, which is the kind of thing we would expect them to just put release to the web. But we knew there was probably a new HomePod coming because we had heard that they were going to not give up on…it wasn’t just going to be the mini, there was going to be a bigger HomePod, but it was supposed to be later, it was supposed to be like a more affordable thing or something. This is still $300, which is still too expensive.
MS: It’s $50 less than when HomePod originally launched, but the same price as it was when it was discontinued because Apple cut the price in, I don’t know, 2019 or something.
JC: But still nobody wants to pay $300 for a smart speaker that doesn’t have a screen or anything. It’s got weird updates. It doesn’t really sound different or look different or anything, it’s like the specs are a few millimeters different in size or something. It’s basically the same thing, except that weird display on the top that just like shows glowing lights for when it’s active or whatever is bigger. That useless thing that doesn’t do…it doesn’t show you anything useful. It doesn’t show like graphics of anything.
MS: It’s just like a little color, colored, you know, orbs.
JC: Yeah, right. It helps you adjust the volume a little, but that’s it. It just lets you know when Siri’s listening. It’s silly. It doesn’t need to exist. They made it bigger. It supports Thread now,
like the HomePod mini, and it has a temperature and humidity sensor, which the mini had, but never was turned on. The teardown guys found it and said, well, but this isn’t on. They’re apparently going to turn that on in a software update. So, the Mini’s going to… it’s the weirdest thing.
MS: The specs for the Mini now list the temperature and humidity sensors, so we assume…I mean, it would be a very Apple thing to do to make you buy a new one to get the temperature and humidity sensor, ut since the website doesn’t say it’s new, most likely they’ll just have a HomePod firmware or software update or something.
JC: And probably the same one that enables, this new HomePod, probably 16.3 or something. Later this year, probably the spring, I think they said, is a software update where they’re going to have the recognized sounds feature from like your iPhone, where it’ll recognize if there’s a siren or alarm going off or smoke detector going off, and notify you. That’s going to work in HomePod. Kind of a neat thing. It’s almost better in HomePod than it is in your iPhone. In your iPhone, it’s an accessibility feature for people who are deaf. In your HomePod, it helps anyone get a notification when they’re not home because it stays home and listens while you’re gone.
MS: And that’s about it. That’s new as far as like stuff that you might notice.
JC: Yeah, it’s got an S7 chip instead of what the S5 or something.
MS: But I mean, so I’m sure it’s a fine capable chip. The other one had an original HomePod had an A8, the Apple Watch, the HomePod mini has a S5, which is essentially the same as and S7 like they’re all the same now. Apple just keeps renaming them. So the old one had an A8. If you gave it like an A12 Bionic with that Neural Engine, wouldn’t that benefit HomePod? Because as far as I know, the Apple Watch chip doesn’t have a Neural Engine. At least they don’t advertise it if it does.
JC: Possibly, but I don’t think they’re doing anything or really can do anything necessarily that necessitates it.
MS: Okay.
JC: I think they have–
MS: Like audio, machine learning stuff or anything like that?
JC: I think there already a bit of that in the S-series chips because to filter out noise when you’re talking or to filter out noise when you’re doing the phone calls on your thing and to filter out the speaker being right next to the mic in your watch, the person on the other end of the call doesn’t hear themselves all the time and everything. So I think whatever it is they need to do, they can do with an S7 and it’s just a way for it to be cheaper to manufacture. I mean, never say never about something fancy, but they can still do all their sort of Dolby Atmos stuff and whatever.
I should point out that you cannot pair the new big HomePod with the old big HomePod in a stereo pair.
MS: That’s such an Apple thing.
JC: They probably changed the speaker layout inside and stuff like that. It’s probably not exactly the same drivers and all that stuff. It still works in a home setup where you want to sync the music in multiple rooms and stuff. You just can’t do the stereo pair. I don’t think a lot of people were running out to buy $300 HomePods for stereo pair–that’s what the minis are for.
Oh, and then what they didn’t do, it’s Bluetooth 5 and Wi-Fi 6. They didn’t do Bluetooth 5.3 like they are in other new products or Wi-Fi 6E. So it doesn’t have whatever new Broadcom Wi-Fi and Bluetooth chip they’re using or something.
MS: Which I mean…so all the Apple’s new products, the Macs, the iPhone, have Bluetooth 5.3. It doesn’t appear to be a reason yet.
JC: Yeah, they’re not doing anything with it. You can’t do with Wi-Fi.
MS: It’s future proofing, which it’s weird that the HomePod wouldn’t have that as well. For whatever comes down the line, like, why not? It does have a U1 chip, which is interesting. So you can, you know, it’s not that that was ever an issue, but now it is more precise location stuff when you have a device nearby. Okay, that’s nice. I mean, it’s not like you’re going to lose it.
JC: With the mini, they did some stuff with like handoff where you could just bring your iPhone near it and it plays on the thing and don’t know if that ever worked on the old OG big HomePod. So, it’ll let–
MS: Yeah, I don’t remember.
JC: But it’ll do that. It’ll do that better or whatever. Yeah, there’s not a huge, a lot of reason to need the U1 chip right this moment.
MS: If you ever misplace your HomePod, you’ll be able to find it, I guess.
JC: Only if it’s plugged in. You have to have it misplaced, plugged into the wall.
RL: What we were expecting was a HomePod with like a…screen, like a bigger screen, like more like an iPad-ish type screen.
JC: There about three rumors out floating out there that we expected. One is a HomePod with a display or a mount for an iPad that would have a display that you can like look up recipes and do stuff on. The other is a HomePod-sound bar-Apple TV combo that would go under your TV and have a camera for FaceTime and be an Apple TV built in and all that stuff. The third is this, the big HomePod again, but made in a cost-reduced fashion so that it can be cheaper. But they didn’t make it cheaper. It probably does cost less for Apple to manufacture, but it’s still $300. It’s not like $149 or $199.
RL: It’s cheaper for them.
JC: Yeah. I think everybody heard that and thought, oh yeah, something bigger than the mini makes sense. But, like, you can’t expect people to pay more than–like even the Apple price should be $199. And then you buy it when it’s $149 on sale.
MS: My guess is in 2024, 2025, it’ll be discontinued again. Because I just don’t know why they’re going to sell any more now than they did two years ago.
JC: Not at this price. It would not surprise me if there’s a lot of wiggle room here for them to lower the price and still make money. It would not surprise me if it got a price drop somewhere down the line.
MS: $199, maybe you’ll get a few more people. $149 is like what it needs to be at to compete with like the Google and Amazon, and similar.
JC: I need to be able to buy the stereo pair for $300.
MS: Yeah. Yeah.
JC: Right? This is not it.
MS: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and they didn’t do enough to it to make anybody upgrade who has one, so those people already have one, unless you have a ton of money to throw away.
JC: I still can’t get over that they made the display thing bigger, the screen. And I hesitate to call it a display because it doesn’t like, it’s just a series of lights.
MS: Yeah, and it does exactly the same thing. It’s the same controls, same notification, light lights. It’s nothing new about it. It’s just, it’s a little bit bigger.
RL: It’s sort of a glorified power LED.
MS: Kind of.
JC: Yeah. Yeah. It’s just like the little orb on your iPhone screen when you invoke Siri. It’s that, but big on your–
MS:Unless you’re looking above it down, you can’t even see.
JC: Yeah. Across the room, you see that it’s lit up, but you don’t see anything about it. And it’s just not useful information. It can’t display texts or numbers or anything like that that lets you go…like if you’re adjusting the volume and it says the number or the percent, that would be useful. They can’t do any of that. It’s just, what a weird, weird product.
MS: Yeah, it’s very strange. And I’d say like, all right, so maybe they found like a whole warehouse full of these things in this site, but it’s different enough where it’s clear that they re-engineered it.
JC: Yeah, totally. Yeah, this is exactly what happened.
RL: So you can order the HomePod now if you’re interested.
MS: After that, after that rousing introduction.
JC: We gave it a glowing recommendation. To be fair, I have the OG HomePod. It’s fine. I like it. I don’t listen to music on it because I don’t like have music playing out of my thing all the time. When I listen to music, I use headphones, but it’s fine. It’s a fine Siri device. My problem with Siri is I need a screen. If you want me to replace my Google stuff, you got to replace the Google Home with the screen because that’s what I use all the time in the kitchen. So it’s okay.
MS: Yeah, I have one too that I use in the office I’m in now for music, but I also have two HomePod minis hooked up to my Mac, which is what I use all the time. That is a great speaker system. I love it. I use it all the time. The HomePod does sound noticeably better. But not $350 where I would tell you how you have to go around and get it the HomePod mini is still very good
RL: The new second generation HomePod doesn’t start shipping until February 3rd, but you can pre-order it now. It’s available in Midnight and White; they didn’t introduce the colors from the HomePod mini.
MS: And they changed Space Gray to Midnight, which is supposed to be like that kind of bluish color–now it’s black or space gray. Like, I don’t know, if they just could get their act together.
JC: All the grays and blacks are just all over the place with Apple stuff.
MS: Maybe when you see it in person, it’ll look different, but it looks like Space Gray, but they’re calling it Midnight. I don’t know.
JC: But the HomePod Space Gray was very black–more black than the Space Gray from like Macs and stuff. It’s blacker.
MS: Yes.
JC: So, it’s just weird. Okay. Whatever.
MS: And now we have Space Black on the iPhone and it’s just like, come on.
JC: We’re more excited about the other Apple stuff. Yes.
MS: Yeah. Now that we got that out of the way.
RL: Yes. That’s thank you for the transition, Jason.
JC: Sorry, it’s just that, like, none of us want to talk about HomePod and we won’t stop.
RL: As I mentioned in the introduction, Apple introduced some new Macs. There’s a new Mac mini that we’ve been waiting for for a while. We thought we were going to get it sometime last year. It finally showed up, so we get two new Mac minis. Finally the Intel Mac mini is gone. Was it $1,099?
MS: It was.
RL: The Intel Mac mini is no longer part of the lineup but now we’ve got an M2 Mac mini for $599 and then an M2 Pro Mac mini–I forget how much it’s–
MS: $1,299 a little bit too high, but the Mac mini is fantastic for $599. The Mac mini M2 Pro is, I think, a little too much. Maybe it’s not too much for what it gives you, but I think it gives you too much. Like, I don’t think anyone’s looking for a [indecipherable] Mac mini.
JC: I think there are people. Well, the thing is, an M2 Pro is pretty darn good. I think a lot of people don’t need to spend…what is the starting price of a Mac Studio?
MS: Two thousand, $1,999.
JC: I think a Mac mini with…you don’t get the $1,299 version, you want more storage or something like that. But with an upgrade in there somewhere, that’s a 16GB version. The full version with 12 cores is $1,599 and then $1,800 for a terabyte of storage or something. I think for a lot of people, you don’t need the Mac Studio. You get that instead. So it fills in a gap, I think. And for the entry price one, $599 is great. I would get the $799 version because 256 gigs of storage is–
MS: It’s a little small.
JC: A little small.
MS: You can hook up an external drive, but it’s going to cost you about a hundred something dollars anyway, so might as well just get the extra.
JC: Right. And you only get two Thunderbolt ports on that version. So I’d get the extra storage, but that’s going to be a good deal though.
MS: The Mac mini with the M2 Pro has four Thunderbolt ports. Otherwise it’s identical to the M2 model.
JC: So yeah, a couple of things are different. One is the Thunderbolt ports. Two is the HDMI port on it. It’s HDMI 2.1. The regular M2 version still has the old HDMI 2.0 so it maxes out at 4K, 60Hz. The M2 Pro version has HDMI 2.1. It goes up to 8K monitor at 60Hz or 4K at 240Hz. They all support variable refresh rate. And I think you can do two displays on the M2 version and three on the M2 Pro.
MS: Correct. Yeah, you can only do one with the M1 mini. Anyone buying that, I believe the M2 Mac mini $600 or $899 computer isn’t looking to run three displays and if you are, you have a much better setup and then you can go for that $1,299 model.
JC: So yeah, some slight differences in the–not slight, but there are some little differences besides just the pro in there. They all come with gigabit ethernet, but you can get 10 gig ethernet if you need it. They all still have the same, you know, USB-A ports and stuff. I believe they all have Wi-Fi 6E and Bluetooth 5.3.
MS: Yep. That’s starting to become standardized now.
RL: They’re all available in silver. I know everyone’s anxious to know what finishes are available.
MS: Yeah, I was bummed. I wanted that Space– I like the Space Gray mini.
JC: You can get your keyboards and mice with it in Space Gray.
MS: So they introduced those black accessories with the Mac Studio, which also isn’t available in Space Gray. So I guess that’s the new cool pairing, silver and black, because they don’t seem to go together, but they look good in the renders.
RL: So there were rumors that we were gonna get a case redesign for the Mac mini and that didn’t happen.
MS: That was a long time ago. I mean, who knows what happened if that was true? Who knows? Maybe they did it, they decided to scrap it, but yeah, they’re identical. There’s nothing new about the Mac mini cases. And yeah, we were supposed to get a two-tone thing it was going to be a lot thinner–or not a lot thinner, it’s still pretty thin, but about 50 percent thinner, maybe 40percent thinner. Maybe the iMac magnetic power cable, more ports, all that stuff. And it just didn’t happen, maybe the M3, maybe it was wrong.
RL: Wondering if maybe there were some wires crossed with the Mac Studio or–
MS: Yeah, maybe. I mean, that’s not really much of a redesign thing either. That’s basically a taller Mac mini.
RL: Or maybe it was just a way to find out who a leaker was at Apple.
JC: True. You know, I honestly don’t think the Mac mini needed a redesign in the sense that now it matches the Mac Studio. The only thing I wish they would have done is added ports to the front. The USB-C and SD card slot from the Mac Studio would be great to have on the front of the mini.
MS: Yeah, right. It doesn’t really need it but as Jason said that those front ports are…it’s an unsung hero of devices. It’s pretty damn convenient just to kind of not have to work your way to the back of the device to plug something in.
RL: So the mini is available for order now and it starts shipping on January 24th, that’s Tuesday.
We also got a pair of new MacBook Pros. These are also another set of Macs that we thought we were going to get last year, especially because the M1 Pro/Max version of the 14- and 16- inch MacBook Pros were on sale at a lot of retailers. So we figured that the M2 Pro versions were going to drop soon. There’s not a whole lot to say about these laptops though. It’s essentially a processor update. There’s also the new HDMI that Jason talked about. These laptops come with that new HDMI support and the new Bluetooth and Wi-Fi. But otherwise, it’s everything else the same, which is fine, because it’s a good laptop. I mean, that redesign and the new hardware features came with it just came out.
MS: Yeah, about a year and a half in November of 2021.
JC: Yeah, I think we still want Face ID, especially since they have a notch for no reason. But otherwise, I mean, it has a really great display with HDR and ProMotion, and it got a full redesign. The battery life is great. In fact, the battery life they say is about an hour longer in the new one. It’s not time for a redesign. We don’t really need one.
MS: I was hoping for the Dynamic Island on the MacBook Pro.
JC: They could do that with software though. That’s not–
MS: Yeah.
JC: Anything with the notch, they could do that. That could be a macOS update.
MS: But yeah, it’s pretty much what we thought. M2 Pro, M2 Macs, about 20 percent based on Apple’s estimates. We’ll test them when we get them in. But 20 percent CPU, 30 percent GPU, better efficiency. Apple says it’ll get about 22 on the 16 inch, which is, you know, that’s like, that’s a lot. 21 was good, but 22 is really nice. Otherwise, you know, the same, the same, you know, they didn’t bring a Midnight color like to do with the MacBook Air. Oh, you get the color matched MagSafe cable now. It’s not just white. So there’s that.
RL: Yeah, there’s the reason why you need to sell your M1 Pro MacBook Pro.
MS: Yeah, I mean, the prices are the same. Yeah, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t. I have the 14-inch M1 Pro and I have no interest in upgrading it. It’s fine.
JC: So the M1s were based on the CPU and GPU designs from the A14. The M2 was based on the CPU and GPU designs from the A15. So when the Pro and Max are just more cores for those things, the big difference between the M1, Pro and Max is they had–those had two efficiency cores and eight, up to eight high performance cores. These still have the high performance cores, but four efficiency cores. So you get 12 cores instead of 10. That’s some of how they’re getting 20 percent better CPU. GPU is there’s more cores. It’s weird, it’s like up to 19 on the Pro and 38 on the Max, which is like a strange number. Usually they go in twos and power of twos and stuff. Same memory bandwidth, it seems like they have the same LPDDR5 memory buses, same 200 and 400 gigabytes per second memory bandwidths and stuff. The only other difference there is that the M1 Max versions used to top out at 64 gigs of RAM, you can get 96 gigs of RAM now, as long as you get the version with 38 GPU cores, just like before they sell a version with like 30 GPU cores or some lower end version of the Macs, you can get a, as long as you get the full version with 38 GPU cores, you can get 96 gigs of RAM.
MS: Which will cost you.
JC: That’ll cost you.
MS: $800 just for the memory. And then of course you got to buy that higher machine as well. So you’re looking at, you know, 30 something hundred dollars. That’s a lot.
JC: That’s a lot. They’re expensive laptops.
MS: Yeah, they are. Starts at the same price, $1,999 for the 14-inch model which has the lesser M2 Pro with 10 cores and 16 for the graphics,14. I forget.
JC: Yes.
MS: It’s 2,500 bucks for the better chip. And then the 16-inch only has the higher end M2 Pro that starts at $2,500. You can get the Max that goes up to $3,000-plus and you know.
JC: Well, it’s $2,500 for the better chip and double the storage.
MS: On the 14 inch, correct.
JC: That’s their standard configs. If you just take the cheapest one and do nothing but update the processor, it’s another 300 bucks.
RL: Yeah, if you take the high-end 16-inch, which has the M2 Max with a 38-core GPU, then you upgrade it to 96 gigabytes of memory, it’s $4,299.
MS: Yeah. You might as well get the 8 terabytes of storage at that point.
JC: Yeah, might as well.
RL: Then you’re paying $6,499.
MS: That’s still better than paying for a $5,000 Mac Pro.
JC: Right. If you’re going to spend $4,300, you might as well spend $6,500.
RL: Just the idea of having a $6,500 laptop in my backpack.
MS: Yeah.
RL: Walking around with it…
JC: Oh, it’s terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.
RL: Yeah, that’s scary to me. But there are people who do it, people who are into video, who do professional video editing and 3D work and stuff.
JC: Yeah. I mean, they’re also, they usually also have like a case with a camera that costs more than that in there and stuff. And it’s like, this is my mobile workstation. I’m going to produce high-end video content on the go. And I’m walking around with like the $20,000 worth of stuff.
MS: But yeah, I mean, I think we have to have some realism with Apple silicon, like even though it’s great, it’s going to be a period of time where it gets really good and then
levels for a while and then gets really good, and levels…
JC: I mean, it’s not going to be twice as fast every year.
MS: Yeah, like we’re expecting like, oh, the M2 is going to be double, but it’s just not going to happen.
JC: It’s not going to happen. And they all share design similarities. So it’s like…and you’ll see them first in the iPhone, usually. So the iPhone will get some Neural Engine and then that’s going to filter out to other products, other chips in Apple silicon over the next year or so. And that’s exactly what happens, as with that A15 Neural Engine improvement.
MS: What are we up to? 17, 18 this year? 17.
JC: It’ll be the 17 this year.
MS: Yeah, so that’ll be a three nanometer most likely that’s what we’re hearing. And from there, we’ll be able to get an idea of what the M3 and the M3 Pro and those will be like, it’s all going to be incremental steps from here on out. Even though the M1 was just this blow away thing because it was coming from a different place.
JC: These chip updates, they’re still on five nanometer, which a lot of people were speculating, hey, these will be the first three nanometer chips because they kind of…like TSMC said three nanometer is kind of available for a while and Apple is supposed to be the first big company to use it, then it hasn’t happened.
MS: They started mass production earlier this year, so they’re rolling.
JC: But these aren’t them. These are still five nanometer or that second-gen enhanced.
MS: Well, at least they corrected that. They said it was four nanometer, which is, as Jason pointed out, just nonsense.
JC: That’s not even what, yeah, it’s not even what–none of that really matters. The point is that they talked a lot about GPU performance and gaming with the Mac mini and it’s like, they’re still pretty far behind on a lot of features that you get in GPUs from Nvidia and AMD and stuff. I mean, they’ve had ray tracing hardware support for several years now. Apple’s not there. There’s other things.
And they still have no support for AV1, which all the other GPU guys have. And Apple’s supposedly on board with AV1, they’re part of the group that supports it and came up with it and all that other stuff, but they don’t have any hardware to encode AV1 yet. So there’s some little odd idiosyncrasies with the M2 Pro and Macs.
MS: It’s also strange that the Mac Studio wasn’t upgraded at the same time. So now that has an M1 Max.
JC: They need an Ultra.
MS: Yeah, right. That’s was my next–
JC: Yeah.
MS: It was that surprising that they…the M1 Ultra is still around. There’s no M2 Ultra. We don’t know. We haven’t seen the Mac Pro. Like when you control all this stuff, like you can control like when it comes out and it seems strange that it’s all kind of like piecemeal. The M2 came out last June. Now we’re finally getting the M2 Pro, M2 Mac. So I don’t know. It could be a production thing still because there’s still issues with that supply chain stuff. Inflation, you know, they had a shift production around to get iPhones even in people’s hands over the holiday. I think we might see a different schedule for the M3, but it is weird that this has all been very sporadic, this rollout of the M2.
JC: And it’s an even bigger chip. So, to take two of them and slap them on an interposer to make an M2 Ultra is a lot to ask. Maybe that’s just one of those things are like, this doesn’t–in the numbers we sell, this is not a priority.
MS: Well, they’re going to have to put something in the Mac Pro that’s better than the Mac Studio.
JC: Yeah.
MS: So maybe the Studio stays with the M1 and the Pro gets the M2 and it’s always a generation behind, I don’t know.
JC: Or maybe not. Maybe they all top it out the Ultra and the only reason you get the Pro is for you want to stick in cards.
MS: I think I’d have to lower the price then.
JC: Yeah.
MS: I mean, it’s significantly more.
JC: Yeah. So I don’t know. I think they will lower the price because they’re not buying workstation parts from Intel.
MS: As long as I keep the wheels, I’m okay with it.
JC: Yeah. As long as it supports the same wheels. If you’ve invested $400 in some wheels.
MS: $700.
JC: Yeah, it’s true. I don’t know why I keep thinking it was $100 a wheel, which is ridiculous when it’s more.
MS: How dare you, Jason.
RL: That does it for this episode of the Macworld Podcast, episode 824. Thanks to Jason Cross.
JC: Thank you.
RL: Thanks to Michael Simon.
MS: Thank you, sir.
RL: And thanks to you, the audience. Thank you for tuning in. You can subscribe to the Macworld Podcast on the Podcast app on Spotify or through any other podcast app. If you have any comments or questions, send us an email at podcast at macworld.com or contact us through Twitter, that’s at Macworld, or on the Macworld Facebook page. Join us in the next episode of the Macworld Podcast as we talk about the latest in the world of Apple. See you next time!
