CAIRA: What is the difference between a barbecue and a cookout?
SAM: Well, that’s a whole episode.
CAIRA: Oh.
SAM: I think at a barbecue, you’re actually going to barbecue. You’re going to cook meat for a long time and serve it to a large number of people. At a cookout, Chad’s going to just do the hot dogs.
CHRISTINE: I’m Christine Cyr Clisset.
CAIRA: I’m Caira Blackwell.
ROSIE: I’m Rosie Guerin, and you’re listening to The Wirecutter Show.
CAIRA:
This episode is called Grill, Baby, Grill
ROSIE: Hey, Caira. Hey, Christine.
CAIRA: Hi.
CHRISTINE: Hello.
ROSIE: Another Wednesday, another Wirecutter Show.
CHRISTINE: Again, this has become a regular thing for us.
ROSIE: Today we’re going to talk about grills and grilling.
CHRISTINE: ‘Tis the season.
ROSIE: ‘Tis the season. Are you grilling people?
CAIRA: I want to be.
ROSIE: Aspirational griller?
CHRISTINE: Aspirational. I do not currently have an outdoor space that I can grill at, but when I am somewhere where I can grill, I do grill. And on the site, we do have recommendations for gas grills, for charcoal grills, and I have got to tell you all that it is kind of wild testing grills in New York City, I think we’re going to get into that in this episode, but it is a massive task to figure out places that you can actually grill. We can’t do it at our offices. There’s no outdoor space to do it. Our landlord will not let us do it there, and so we’ve had to get very creative over the years.
ROSIE: The kitchen team had to put together something wild.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, they really did. And we’re going to get into that in a little bit.
CAIRA: I loved what they ended up doing and I want to do it again. First up today, we’re talking with Lesley Stockton, who’s a senior staff writer on the kitchen team to talk to us about all of the unexpected things that she uses to cook and keep her grill clean. And then later we’re going to have Sam Sifton, assistant managing editor at NYT and co-founder of New York Times Cooking, talk to us about some of the recipes he’s excited to cook on his grill this summer, and, of course, his famous hosting tips for a blowout barbeque.
CHRISTINE: I am really looking forward to that.
ROSIE: Sam is the best.
CHRISTINE: Okay, we’re going to take a quick break and when we’re back we’ll talk with Lesley Stockton about tips and tools for becoming a better grill cook. We’ll be right back.
CAIRA: Welcome back. With us now is Lesley Stockton, who is a senior kitchen writer at the kitchen team at Wirecutter, and she’s worked as a professional chef for over 20 years. And one of her very first jobs was working as a sous chef at a restaurant that cooked over a wood burning grill, and she had to do the maintenance for all of that, which is so impressive.
CHRISTINE: Lesley. I love that. Welcome back to the show.
LESLEY: I love being here.
CHRISTINE: Lesley, you’ve been testing grills and grill tools for Wirecutter for many years, and most recently you finished this really huge grill test where we rented an entire brownstone in Brooklyn to test a bunch of grills. Tell us a little bit about that.
LESLEY: Okay, so first of all, I did start this coverage eight years ago in my backyard. So this time around, since I don’t have that backyard anymore, because living in New York can be perilous, we rented a backyard in Clinton Hill. And you’re covered in grease, you’re sweating, you’re swapping out propane tanks, there’s meat. It’s so much.
CHRISTINE: And just to paint a picture, because I went to this house and checked it out, you had over a dozen grills in this backyard, right?
LESLEY: Grills and griddles.
CHRISTINE: Right. So you had gas grills, you had griddles. Were you doing any
LESLEY: Charcoal?
LESLEY: There was one charcoal grill in the backyard, which is our top pick, the Weber 22 inch kettle. I was using that because I was testing griddle inserts for Weber grills, which is just kind of like a flat piece of metal that you can cook pancakes on, and bacon, and shrimp, and things like that.
CHRISTINE: And bacon, bacon and eggs, french toast. You can use it as a plancha. Of course. Wonderful.
CAIRA: That’s what the deli guys used at the bodegas, right?
CHRISTINE: Yeah! And also just for listeners who might not be aware, I mean it is a really big deal to be able to test grills in a backyard. Like you mentioned earlier, the first time we did this was in your backyard in Brooklyn, took weeks, and this time it took weeks also. So we spent two weeks testing grills in this backyard, which is a huge, huge task.
ROSIE: So when you’re doing grilling testing, big picture. I know we’re going to zoom into some of the specifics about tools and about setups, but big picture grill testing, what are some of the criteria you are using to judge grills?
LESLEY: So for propane grills, what you’re looking for is a cast aluminum firebox because that reflects heat the best, and aluminum is not corrosive the way steel is, so it won’t succumb to the elements.
You also want a grill that doesn’t flare up a lot. Every grill is going to flare up a little bit, but you just don’t want a bunch of flare-ups. You want it to heat relatively evenly. Now with every single gas grill, the very front of the grates, like the part that’s closest to you, is always going to be the coldest. That’s just what it is. We can’t do anything about it. But how cold is it up there and how hot is in the back corners? Do the grates give you a good sear? Does it get hot enough to give you a good sear in good color or does it get too hot where everything just comes out with a layer of carbon? It has a lot to do with user-friendliness.
So Weber has been our pick and we’re not shills for Weber, but the thing is about Weber is that it heats evenly. It has the fewest amount of flare-ups and I think it’s the most user-friendly grill for your average home cook.
CAIRA: So why would people be upset about that? I feel like Weber-
LESLEY: Because all our picks are Weber.
CAIRA: But that’s because I feel like I don’t know anything about a grill, but I tried to use a Weber grill last week and it felt like I was using a stove, like a gas-burning stove.
LESLEY: Yeah, and you still get a really good end result. You get great sear marks, you get great flavor, you get good searing. I’ve tested so many dang grills, trust me on this one.
CAIRA: I like that. So Lesley, what I really want to know is what is the easiest, simplest way to really level up your current grilling experience?
LESLEY: The best way to do that is to spend some time really focusing on cleaning and oiling your grates in the beginning. Let me expand on that.
So, there are a couple of different schools of thought on this, but as someone who did work over a grill, what I do is, I turn on the grill, I let it get hot, and then I come back, and I scrape the grates with a wire brush. Now I know this is controversial because people are like, ‘but you can get a wire stuck in your soft palate.’ There are more steps to this. You scrape those grates clean, you get all the food debris from the last cook off, by the time the grill is hot, they have turned to carbon, so they’re really easy to get off. Now next, you go over it with a damp rag and when you look at that rag, it’s going to be sooty that would’ve been on your food, right? Use tongs. Don’t wipe a hot grill with a damp rag-
CHRISTINE: And your hands.
LESLEY: And your hands.
CHRISTINE: It’s not going to feel good.
LESLEY: Use tongs. And then, last step, with a paper towel with some vegetable oil on it, oil those grates, now it is ready to cook
CHRISTINE: And that’s what you should be doing every time before you grill. Right?
LESLEY: Yes.
CHRISTINE: Because I know some people will leave their grill on for a little while after they’re done grilling to burn off any food. Great as a rodent deterrent.
CAIRA: Oh, okay, good.
ROSIE: Well that’s always good.
CHRISTINE: What about cleaning the rest of your grill? I was actually at a friend’s house a couple summers ago and they hadn’t cleaned their grill in a couple years. They have a propane grill. And they had a grease fire and they had to put it out with a fire extinguisher.
LESLEY: Yeah. Mm-hmm, that happens. Uh-huh.
CHRISTINE: How important is it to clean your grill and deeper clean and how often?
LESLEY: Yeah, so let’s say you’re going to grill, and you turn it on to heat it up and you come back and you see some smoke coming out of the firebox. And what I mean by coming out of the firebox, is smoke is coming out from underneath the flame ports. That’s when I get, I don’t know what is it is a spackle knife or a paint scraper, like one of those big spatulas that people used to fill holes with walls with spackle? Spackle knife.
CHRISTINE: Like a metal version of that.
LESLEY: Yeah, a metal version of that. And, make note, after this grill cools down, I’m going to remove the grates, take the flame port protectors off, and I’m going to get in there with this metal spackle knife, and I’m going to just scrape all the grease and crud out from the bottom of the firebox, direct it toward the grease trap, and change out that grease trap, wash it, whatever. So I would say once in the middle of grilling season, and then definitely at the end.
CHRISTINE: Because you don’t want that grease just sitting there all winter, right?
LESLEY: Yeah, getting rancid and rodents.
CAIRA: How can you tell if there isn’t a live rat just crawling around in your grill?
LESLEY: Droppings.
CAIRA: How do you know the difference between charred bits of food and droppings?
LESLEY: I mean… Look, if you’re that paranoid, just get in there with some simple green and a scrub. And let it burn off for a solid 20 to 30 minutes.
CAIRA: Okay.
ROSIE: So back to the grill brush. That is a hot topic. You mentioned the metal bristles can get into food, it can get stuck in your body. Is that what you actually recommend to clean the grill?
LESLEY: We do. We also have a recommendation for, oh gosh, it’s called the grill rescue brush, and it’s kind of cool. It’s like a plastic red handle, and it’s made with this fire retardant fabric that firefighters use or something, and you get it wet and while the grill is hot, it just kind of steam cleans the grates.
CHRISTINE: So you don’t need the bristles. It acts like the bristles because it’s got some kind of texture on it.
LESLEY: And the wipe of the damp rag afterwards. It works pretty well. Does it give you a really good scrape, like a wire brush? No.
ROSIE: Two follow up questions. Why are you not worried about the metal bristles?
LESLEY: I am not worried about the metal bristles because I’m going over it with that damp rag that picks up soot and everything else off of the top of those grates, and then I’m going over it again with an oiled paper towel, and so that’s two wipes. When you hear about those horror stories of like, ‘my five-year-old got a wire bristle stuck in their soft palate,’ they didn’t wipe it afterwards and that’s always my first question. Why did they wipe down the grates? They didn’t wipe down the grates, because if they did, this would not be a story.
ROSIE: Got it. And then my second question is, I admittedly know exactly nothing about grilling, but I have heard that some people opt to use like an onion. Is that a thing? Is that a myth?
LESLEY: No, it’s not a myth. I honestly just use a balled up foil ball. The onion has… One, it’s a waste of an onion.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, grill that onion, eat that onion.
LESLEY: Exactly. Two, it’s going to deposit sugar, so you’re not really cleaning it. Does that make any sense?
ROSIE: Yeah, yeah, it makes sense to me.
LESLEY: Yeah, it just doesn’t sit right with me.
CHRISTINE: I want to talk a little bit about tools. And I know that there’s a pretty wide span of quality for grill tools. I think most people probably have a grill kit that maybe they got it as a gift, or it came with their grill. It’s got a set of tongs and a spatula. Is this what you would recommend for people, or are there other things or unexpected tools that you think people should really know about?
LESLEY: I find those kits, well aesthetically pleasing are not great. They’re heavy. The tongs are always difficult to use.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, they never squeeze right, I don’t know if you notice they don’t spring back very well.
LESLEY: They spring back to two and a half inches and it-
ROSIE: It makes me feel like a child holding the tongs because they’re so massive.
CHRISTINE: They’re so big.
ROSIE: And you can’t quite, you have to use two hands.
LESLEY: Because they’re man tongs.
CHRISTINE: I think, yeah, they’re supposed to be man tongs. For sure.
LESLEY: Man tongs. And I always find those spatulas to be awkward to use. Again, they’re absurdly long. What I like to use, if we’re talking about tongs, WinCo, restaurant tongs 12 inch-
CHRISTINE: Just those metal, they’re cheap, they’re just the metal kind, right?
LESLEY: The metal kind. We’re not even talking about any silicone grips. The metal tongs you get at the restaurant supply store or on Amazon, and they’re very inexpensive, and they last a long time, and they’re dishwasher safe. I recommend WinCo tongs in many sizes. If we’re talking spatulas, there’s a very large fish spatula made by Mercer, and it’s called Hell’s handle, so if you want something manly, there it is.
CAIRA: What’s a fish spatula? What’s the difference?
LESLEY: A fish spatula is it’s long and it flares out towards it tapers towards the handle and it flares out as it goes out. It’s angled at the end and it’s slotted, so it’s just kind of the perfect spatula for almost anything, any type of flipping. I say almost, because it’s not great for a griddle, but it’s great in the kitchen. It’s great on the grill. I love a fish spatula.
CHRISTINE: It’s come up before. I think Marilyn, our kitchen senior editor also loves a fish spatula. Are there any other, beyond tongs and the spatula, what else would you recommend for a grill?
LESLEY: Get yourself a basting brush. I know we recommend a silicon brush and the one we recommend I think is the only one I will tolerate. I think it’s OXO. It’s easy to clean. Again, you can throw it in the dishwasher.
CHRISTINE: What about, my mom has a grill basket she swears by it. Do you like those?
LESLEY: Oh, grill baskets. I was such a hater for a very long time, but I’m into it now.
ROSIE: What is a grill basket?
LESLEY: So a grill basket is a steel perforated square basket with handles, and you just put it on your grill and you can grill cut up vegetables, anything that’s small, like shrimp, anything that you don’t want to put on a skewer you can do in a grill basket. I don’t know about y’all, but I think skewers are kind of a pain in the butt.
CAIRA: What?
CHRISTINE: 1000%.
LESLEY: Thank you.
ROSIE: I don’t want to waste the time to shove something on a skewer
CHRISTINE: And soak the skewers if you’re using the wood ones.
LESLEY: But also things don’t cook at the same rate and so people put eggplant and squash, and what are other popular things to put on a vegetable skewer?
CHRISTINE: Peppers.
CAIRA: Bell peppers.
ROSIE: Onions, yeah.
LESLEY: And then, every single time that eggplant is spongy and undercooked. Look, I’m not subtweeting anyone here. That is just how it goes.
CHRISTINE: And so you would recommend putting all the things you would put on a skewer into a grill basket instead?
LESLEY: Yes. If you must skewer, if you must, put all the same thing on one skewer.
CHRISTINE: All the chicken.
LESLEY: Yeah.
CHRISTINE: All the pineapple.
ROSIE: Keep it homogenous.
LESLEY: And then people can just get what they want off the skewer, and keep it pushing.
ROSIE: Lesley, so much good information here about how to really level up your backyard grill. What I’m taking away most of all is clean it. Deep clean at the end of the season, and then really clean for maintenance, that process you mentioned, whereby you’re scrubbing it down with the metal bristles, you’re taking a wet cloth to it and then you’re taking a lightly oiled paper towel to it, and that’s going to really help level up the performance of your grill if you’re using it on any kind of regular basis.
LESLEY: You should not have any or very few problems with food sticking to your grates if you do that process.
ROSIE: The other takeaway I think is, you can go for those prepackaged grill kits if you want your tools, or you can make your own and maybe get a fish spatula, maybe get a grill basket. Play around.
LESLEY: I honestly think you’ll save some money too.
ROSIE: And save some money. …Why do people grill?
LESLEY: Let me tell you why we grilled when I was a kid, and why I continued to grill as adult is because, I grew up in Houston, and it’s hot. You’re fighting for your life cooling down your house in July, August, September. Your AC unit is working overtime, and so when you can turn on the heat source outside, and then keep your kitchen cool, that’s everything.
ROSIE: So that’s the practical reason. What’s the romantic reason?
LESLEY: Cooking over fire, I don’t know. Cosplaying struggle?
ROSIE: Yeah. Is it tapping into, is it tapping into the hunter gatherer?
LESLEY: I think so. I just think it’s like a different way of cooking. It’s like, we don’t braise everything, we don’t fry everything, we don’t bake everything. It’s like sometimes you want to switch it up.
CAIRA: So there seems to be this eternal debate around the grilling community about gas versus charcoal. After years of your experience, Lesley, what is your take? Are you team gas or team charcoal?
LESLEY: Let me tell you something. These charcoal folks have no leg to stand on, because I cooked over mesquite wood for years in this restaurant, and that is a whole other thing. If you want flavor, start with wood. I find that, mostly men, are resistant to propane grills because to them that’s kind of like the outdoor cooking version of getting a minivan, and it’s not sexy, it’s way too practical. But another thing I noticed is that, when men finally do get the minivan, they love the minivan.
CHRISTINE: I’ll attest to this, we rented a minivan this summer and my husband totally loved it.
CAIRA: So, it’s not sexy, but it works.
LESLEY: It works and it just frees you up. I love charcoal grilling. I do. But do I just want to rely on a charcoal grill to fire it up in the middle of the week because it’s too hot to cook in my kitchen, and yada yada yada? No, I don’t want to start that chimney starter full of coals just so I can cook myself some dinner really quick. That’s why the propane grill is awesome.
CHRISTINE: Lesley, it is always a pleasure to have you on the show. We want to have you back soon. We are going to take a quick break, and when we’re back we’re going to talk with Sam Sifton, who is the founder of New York Times Cooking, and he’s going to talk about how to dial in your grilling, what summer recipes you might want to do, and the burning question that I think all of us want to know. How much booze should you serve at your summer barbecue?
CAIRA: Yeah, he had a hot take about Thanksgiving, so.
CHRISTINE: Oh my gosh.
CAIRA: We’ll get into it.
CHRISTINE: All right, we’ll be right back.
CAIRA: Welcome back. We’re here in the studio with New York Times’ assistant managing editor, co-founder of NYT cooking, and grill-enthusiast Sam Sifton.
CHRISTINE: Sam, welcome back to the show.
SAM: Thanks. Thanks for having me.
CHRISTINE: It’s so great to have you. So you’re basically an honorary Wirecutter staffer at this point. You have tested grills with us. I think the first time we tested grills almost eight years ago, you joined us in the backyard of our writer Lesley Stockton’s backyard, and you helped us test a bunch of grills. So I got to know, are you team charcoal or Team Gas Grill?
SAM: I’m Team Grill.
CHRISTINE: You’re just Team Grill. Basically what she said.
SAM: I just want to be clear about something. I have a lot of grills.
CHRISTINE: Oh really?
ROSIE: What is a lot of grills?
CAIRA: How many?
SAM: Listen, I have a gas grill because I think a gas grill is an incredibly useful tool. It’s my outdoor kitchen all summer long and I love it. I love it. I love it. I have a charcoal grill because sometimes you want that kind of heat, you want that kind of char, that kind of flavor. I have other grills that I don’t want to get into. It just marks me as a lunatic. But I am not on team charcoal or team propane. I’m on Team Grill.
CHRISTINE: Okay.
ROSIE: I’m not a griller. Who is the person? Who is this person who grills? Is this like-
SAM: The grill guy?
ROSIE: Yeah. Is it primordial? What is it about grill? Is it meat and fire? Why are we doing it?
SAM: This is my culture.
ROSIE: Tell me, talk to me. Who are you?
SAM: I mean look, there’s big dad energy to it, for sure. There is something about being outside. For me, in particular, I like cooking outside. I like the inventiveness that comes along with it. The sort of experimentation that leads to big reveals, and I just enjoy it. I guess it is. It’s big dad energy, man.
ROSIE: Big dad energy. So not team gas, not team charcoal. Your team grill. What does that mean for you? I mean not everyone obviously is going to be able to have multiple grills, so if someone’s trying to get into it, what are you guiding them toward?
SAM: I think that the easiest way in as a gas grill, because it’s essentially, it’s just an outdoor stove. You’re not going to get a great steak out of it, but there are a lot of things that you can do on a gas grill that’ll give you the fundamentals that you can transfer to live fire.
As for live fire, if you’re charcoal curious, head to your local park where there’s often grills there, you can cook on them and learn, ‘is this for me? Do I like this? Do I want to do more with this?’ If you are moved to purchase a charcoal grill first, and obviously Wirecutter recommends you get the Weber Kettle Grill, which we knew going into the testing was going to win it’s a superior product.
CHRISTINE: It’s obvious. Yes.
SAM: Yeah. It’s just a superior product. Get the one we recommend, the big one. Don’t get the little one that looks like a football helmet. That’s not going to help you in any regard.
CAIRA: Sam, I know that you’ve written about this in your newsletter, but I want to talk a little bit about understanding the zones on a grill. As somebody who also isn’t really a griller, that seems pretty intimidating to me. Just knowing where to put things, and when to take it off. What exactly does it mean to have zones in your grill?
SAM: Yeah, people freak out. I don’t get it, man. Do you freak out when you have zones with an air conditioner? Nobody’s like, this room is cool, this room is cooler, this room is cold, okay? Those are zones. Ooh, I’m freaked out.
So let’s start with a charcoal grill. That’s where the zone issue becomes most complicated.
When you’re lighting the fire at the very beginning of the process, when you dump that charcoal out, if you put it right in the middle, and then kind of push it out and everything’s equal at the bottom of the grill, you have no zones. It’s all uniform. However, if you pour them off, I’m right-handed so I usually pour them off to the left side, and it’s sort of mounded on the left side and there’s nothing on the right side, now you have a hot zone, which is right above where the top of the mound is, a kind of medium zone where it’s slightly farther away, and a cooler zone off to the right where there are no coals at all. And I could put a chicken in that so-called cool zone, put the top on the Weber and let convection heat do its work and I got a nice smoked roasted chicken in about an hour. Zones!
CHRISTINE: There we go. The zones. The zones.
CAIRA: Don’t be scared.
CHRISTINE: Well, if somebody just feels kind of intimidated and they haven’t had a lot of wins on the grill, what do you suggest they do? Obviously practice makes perfect, but do you have any strategies for just becoming better at grilling in general?
SAM: Yeah, grill.
CHRISTINE: Yeah, practice. Practice.
SAM: Honestly, the more you do it, the more you’re going to figure it out. Commit to the grill. You bought a grill, you spent the money on the Wirecutter pick for the best grill. Now you have it. Now you got to use it.
And are you going to have some losses? Yes you are. I remember once cooking for a dinner party on a grill that was not my own, and I thought that the burner on the left was off, and that’s where I had the chickens and I was kind of smoking them, and I came back and that burner was actually on, and my chickens were incinerated. I threw them in the trash and grilled some more vegetables and we had a big vegetarian feast, and nobody missed the chicken because I never told them that they were getting chicken in the first place.
CAIRA: Well, I got some advice, just as a novice, if I find myself fidgeting around too much with stuff on the grill, then I’m probably doing something wrong. What do you think?
SAM: Yeah, definitely. Why are you touching that? Stop touching that. Yeah, let’s say I have a boneless skinless, or no, I’ll give it skin. Let’s say we have a boneless, eh, why am I taking the bone out? We have a chicken thigh. Okay? I’ve salted it. There’s a little oil on there. I don’t want it to stick to the grate and I put it down on the medium zone, and I’m not going to touch it. I need enough fat to render that it’s going to release from the grate. If you go in there too soon and pick it up, it’s sticking to the grate, it’s ripping and I’m losing this delicious skin that I want to render out and have be a crisp exterior. So don’t touch too much.
CAIRA: But what if it’s charring too much in the medium?
SAM: Then move it! For sure.
CAIRA: Okay.
SAM: You know what I mean? Touch for a reason.
CAIRA: Okay.
SAM: Don’t touch for no reason, don’t touch for nervous. Get a fidget spinner if that’s what you need, but…
CHRISTINE: Get a drink, help somebody else in the kitchen.
SAM: Yeah, be careful on the drinks.
ROSIE: We’re we’re going to get you the drink in just a second. Before that, what are some of the recipes that you think in terms of input versus outsized payoff? What are you thinking?
SAM: I mentioned chicken thighs before. I think chicken thighs are a really, really good protein for the grill. There’s a lot of fat on them, they don’t dry out the way chicken breasts often do. For the big boy proteins, your hams, your pulled porks and stuff, your briskets, your beef ribs. You should feel pretty confident before you tackle those.
CHRISTINE: These are advanced.
SAM: Yeah. That’s not for freshmen.
CHRISTINE: Okay. Yeah. Is fish for freshmen?
SAM: Oh, that’s a great question. So, one of the extras that I have applied to my gas grill, and this is really easily done, is I have a piece of steel that can go over the grill and create this kind of… Create. It is a flat metal surface on which I can cook. The plancha is the perfect thing to cook fish on, because it’s not going to stick to the grates, you can get plenty of oil on there or grease or fat or whatever you want for your flavor. You’re going to get some taste of smoke. Because you could do this on a charcoal grill as well. That’s the best way to cook fish the first few times until you kind of got it figured out. Like a whole fish say. But man, it’s great with scallops, with shrimp, nothing’s falling through the grates.
ROSIE: Sam, what’s your recommendation for someone who is trying to cook non-meat options, and maybe wants to impress a little bit?
SAM: All the vegetables are available to you this summer, and they all do really well on the grill. Even tomatoes do well on the grill, but if you want fast track to success, get corn on there, let it get a little caramelized, put some cool toppings on it, you’ll do great.
Another great thing on the grill, I find, is tofu. If you press it for a while and get as much liquid as you can out of it, planks up pretty nicely and can kind of do well on the grill, especially if you don’t move it too quickly, let it develop a sear, and then flip it over and then get it into a sauce. It just sucks up the sauce deliciously, you don’t need meat to grill.
CHRISTINE: That’s right.
SAM: But it helps.
CAIRA: Sam, what are some recipes that you’re excited to try this summer on the grill?
SAM: Well, I am going to attack some of the kind of larger format proteins, a pork butt on the grill, slowly smoke roasted for hours and hours. If you take the Times recipe for the bossam that used to be served at Momofuku here in New York and do that in a charcoal grill or in a gas grill with a smoker tube attached. It’s already outrageously good, and now it’s like three x outrageously good. So I’ll do that a bunch.
I’ll probably smoke a lot of bluefish. I fish a lot, so we pick up these little snapper bluefish, but darker and some would say oilier. I think that oil lends itself particularly well to smoking.
On the gas grill, I use a smoke tube, this perforated tube filled with wood pellets. I love doing that. On the charcoal grill. I’m getting a moderate amount of smoke just from the charcoal briquettes, but when I’m being an advanced guy, I’m not using charcoal. I’m cooking over wood, so my Weber is now filled with wood, and I’m letting that cook down into coals, and you get some really good smoke flavor from that.
CAIRA: How long does that take?
SAM: Are you asking for a friend? Are you asking for my wife?
ROSIE: We’re hosting a barbecue this summer, let’s say, we’re going to bring out the grill or the grills. What are your best tips for hosting?
SAM: I know I’m going to be serving some long roasted meat. We’re going to have these ribs are coming or whatever, and so I want a lot of other things there that people can munch on while we’re waiting for those ribs to come off. They don’t need to be hot, but in contrast to what we do at Thanksgiving, where we kind of keep them hungry until the last minute, I really, really like to have some quickly cooked hot dogs, or brats, or sausages of some kind, that I can just get out there. Everybody can eat a couple hot dogs and still grind some ribs when they’re ready.
CHRISTINE: In November, when you joined us to talk about Thanksgiving, you shared your guidance about how much alcohol to have on hand at a Thanksgiving dinner, and I believe it was something like two bottles of wine per guest plus some spirits. I’m wondering what your guidance is for grilling?
SAM: I want to dial that wave. The reason why I ask for so much alcohol at Thanksgiving is because you might need it. At a barbecue, I don’t think you do seeing spirits at a barbecue before dark-
CHRISTINE: It’s trouble.
SAM: There’s trouble. There’s trouble. So I think just you want a bunch of cold beer, and some seltzers or hard seltzers, or soda pop or whatever it is that you’re interested in. I have to say my go-to beer at barbecues lately has been N.A. Beer from a company called Athletic.
CHRISTINE: Oh yeah,
SAM: Athletic, makes a really killer N.A.
ROSIE: Sam Sifton, thank you so much.
SAM: Thank you for having me as always. Thanks.
ROSIE: Thanks.
CHRISTINE: All right, you guys. Sam-
ROSIE: Another All-Star episode.
CHRISTINE: Another All-Star episode.
CAIRA: So good.
CHRISTINE: Lesley, Sam, I learned so much about grilling today.
CAIRA: Me too.
ROSIE: For something I’ve had almost next to zero interest in, I am intrigued.
CHRISTINE: Are you intrigued enough to go down to Home Depot this weekend and get yourself a grill?
ROSIE: Hard no, but I will say perhaps one time this summer I will ask to grill at someone’s house if they’ll let me.
CAIRA: That’s a big step forward.
ROSIE: And well, one of my takeaways is what Sam talked about in terms of moving the food, don’t move the food.
CAIRA: Yeah. Mine is also kind of related to that. I think the reason that I was so fidgety over the grill previously, is because I didn’t understand the zoning properly. I would just turn on all the burners, so the grill would just be way too hot. But now I know that you can turn on one side and then you have a hot medium and then cool, and then your food won’t burn, and you won’t be frantically moving it around.
CHRISTINE: That’s right. You’ve got options on that grill.
CAIRA: Yeah.
CHRISTINE: I think my little party trick for the summer when I’m at my mom’s house where she has a grill, or at a friend’s house with a grill is I’m going to go out and clean the grill. As long as it’s not rude to the person that’s grilling. Yeah, I’m going to scrub it down with the brush. I’m going to take the tongs and I’m going to wipe it down with the wet cloth, and then I’m going to oil that baby afterwards. And if I ever am in a situation again where I have a grill, personally, I’m going to make sure and keep it clean because I think that’s something people oftentimes overlook.
ROSIE: I love it.
If you want to find out more about Wirecutter’s coverage of grills, if you want to see footage of the team at the Grill House or if you want to check out the products we recommended today, check out our Instagram, check out our website.
And of course, you can peruse any and all of the brilliant Sam Sifton’s Grill recipes at NYT Cooking. That’s it for us. Thanks so much for listening. Peace.
CAIRA: Bye.
ROSIE: The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by me, Rosie Guerin, and produced by Abigail Keele, engineering support from Maddy Mazziello and Nick Pittman. Today’s episode was mixed by Katherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marian Lozano, Alicia by Etube, and Diane Wong. Wirecutter’s deputy publisher is Cliff Levy. Ben Fruman is Wirecutter’s editor-in-chief.
CAIRA: I’m Caira Blackwell.
CHRISTINE: I’m Christine Cyr Clisset.
ROSIE: And I’m Rosie Guerin. Thank you for listening.
ROSIE: Another grill tool in your proverbial basket. Huh? Christine, what do you think of that?
CHRISTINE: Wait, sorry, what? I’m losing the thread. I’m sorry. Wait, what?
ROSIE: It was a joke.
